Jordan Bates, Founder of Ouroboros and co-owner of High Existence took some time to sit down and answer some questions regarding one of his latest passion projects ‘Shamanic Entrepreneurship’, now renamed ‘New Earth Entrepreneurship’.
Dayna: What inspired you to start the Shamanic Entrepreneurship group? / Could you possibly describe this project in a few sentences?
Jordan: One day a thought appeared: “Shamanic Entrepreneurship is needed now.”The name has now changed to New Earth Entrepreneurship, though to me the two phrases point in very similar directions.
I am deeply fascinated by the intersection between awakening and entrepreneurship.
To me awakening is what brings internal freedom, the Truest Freedom we can experience: the recognition that Freedom is actually all there is; that All is Well and cannot be otherwise.
And entrepreneurship, by contrast, brings external freedom in the relative domain of human affairs: The freedom to do what you want, when you want — the freedom to live your Joy, your Truth, to do what truly makes you come Alive.
Furthermore, as Bucky Fuller said, “You never change things by fighting against the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
When I look at the world, I see most people complaining or protesting or fighting against the existing reality, from an energy of antagonism, usually without offering viable alternatives. And “what you resist, persists.”
The people actually digging in to BUILD new models and paradigms, to ground the New in real-world creations, tend by and large to be entrepreneurs.
New Earth Entrepreneurship, to me, is what happens when entrepreneurs start to awaken, when they start to BUILD from a different paradigm of consciousness, from Unity Consciousness.
The New Earth is first and foremost already here. It is that internal realization of Freedom. It is always available and you can live there Now.
I am deeply fascinated, though, by the question of what sort of businesses, art-works, networks, technologies, organizations, communities, centers, and civilizations could be birthed by those who have begun to find the New Earth within themselves.
Civilization is simply a faithful mirror of our internal paradigm of collective consciousness. It cannot be otherwise. If you want to fundamentally shift civilization, focus on liberating consciousness.
Yet as certain thresholds of collective consciousness liberation are crossed, at a certain point the ‘rubber meets the road’ and it becomes time to start building and transfiguring the existing civilizational paradigms.
It feels like many of us are now being summoned to start building from Unity Consciousness. And it feels like good timing, since humanity seems to be facing an ultimatum: Increase collective wisdom, or self-destruct.
Will humanity flourish into the far future? Are we on the precipice of a Golden Age or the Age of Aquarius? Is our highest timeline locked in?
I have no idea, but it’s quite an archetypal cinematic setup and a rather epic game to participate in. : )
From the vantage point of All That Is, of Reality, of Consciousness, any outcome is completely Okay.
Our True Nature is forever unblemished, unharmed, unborn, deathless.
And this is great news! We can heave a Sacred Sigh of Relief and play the game without taking it so seriously.
Dayna: If someone is interested in Shamanic Entrepreneurship, where should they start? What are the basic values and tools?
Jordan: Start by joining my FB group / community, New Earth Entrepreneurship. : ) Follow Juliet Tang, Jiro Taylor, Dane Tomas, Nikhil Kale online. Read The Conscious Hustle by Dane Tomas and How to Make One Hell of a Profit and Still Get to Heaven by John Demartini. Join the School I’m currently creating for New Earth Entrepreneurs; simply DM me on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram for more information about this.
Dayna: As someone who refers to themselves tentatively as a ‘still-learning’ and ‘wary’ anarchist, the words ‘conscious entrepreneurship’ or ‘shamanic entrepreneurship’ do strike a certain suspect chord within me. It seems to me that the spiritual community has been widely capitalised and commodified over the past few years. Do you personally find it difficult or sometimes slightly disingenuous to combine spirituality with entrepreneurship or how do you go about justifying the combination of these two paradigms?
Jordan: I used to have more hang-ups about it but I don’t anymore.
This is partially because I now clearly see that everything is spiritual; or, in another sense, nothing is spiritual. There is simply always only Reality doing its thing, Being As It Is, and All is Well. Reality doesn’t make mistakes.
If Reality is animating me to create a conscious-entrepreneurial Hogwarts for a planet shifting at light speed, far be it from me to argue with Reality.
If the “commodification” and “capitalization” of the spiritual community means that spiritual people are actually beginning to learn how to ask for what they’re worth and receive compensation for the value they create through goods and services… that sounds great!
If we look at the world right now, the fact is that money and business are so deeply woven into the DNA of our civilization that it seems highly unlikely they’re going to go away anytime soon.
So we can bemoan this fact and complain about it and stomp our feet and pound our fists and… this accomplishes nothing.
Or we can pull an aikido-esque maneuver and harness the energy and momentum of the existing civilizational infrastructure to start carving out a new direction.
Business can be done with integrity, and high-integrity businesses create omni-win-win situations and a lot of value.
On the deepest level everything in existence is neutral. Money and business are neutral tools. They’re amplifiers of what is already present in a person’s system. So if a person is deeply rooted in wisdom and integrity, money and business are simply going to amplify that.
It is high time for a larger segment of the wise beings on this planet to manifest a larger share of wealth, so as to begin applying it toward the purpose of transfiguring this civilization in a more permacultural, regenerative, decentralized, omni-win-win direction.
How else are we going to buy the land and resources to build regenerative farms and conscious-entrepreneurial incubators and ayahuasca centers and New Earth testing grounds and all the rest?
We need capital.
Capital, money, business, is what actually gets shit done in this world at this time.
Reality is always workable, yet one might overlook this if one refuses to use the tools that are sitting right in front of one’s eyes.
Dayna: The spiritual community, in my opinion has perhaps become too apolitical, say in comparison to the counterculture of the 1960’s which was much more politically radical. I think this leaves it open to capitalistic co-option, creating inaccessible paradigms and a spiritual community that does not have its eyes open to a system that may use this political unawareness for its own capitalistic gains or ends, also creating a narcissistic spirituality where those who wear namaste t-shirts, travel the world, and attend ayahuasca ceremonies on a regular basis seem to pride themselves on being on a higher level of consciousness or enlightenment, whilst not taking into consideration that many simply do not have access to these tools due to their socioeconomic status. Do you have any thoughts or comments on this?
Jordan: Every single person, at all times, is simply doing the best they can at the present paradigm of awareness. Every single person, all the time. This goes for “spiritual” people and all people.
And again, Reality does not make mistakes. So any question about things being “too much” this way or “too much” that way doesn’t quite make sense in my context, as things simply Are As They Are at all times, and Reality cannot be ‘wrong.’
There are no tools or practices that are essential for waking up.
This Moment Now Just As It is will always be the only essential thing—which is fortunate, since that’s all there is. : D
All people have equal access to This Moment Now Just As It Is.
Dayna: On risk taking: There seems to be a general advice within this circle of conscious entrepreneurship, not only within your circle but spiritual business circles in general, that risk taking is the way to go if someone is to live a fulfilled life. Would you not agree that giving out such black and white advice may be a bit dangerous without taking into consideration someone’s social, class and economic status? Would you not agree that there is some form of spiritual bypassing?
Jordan: “What’s a life if you never take a risk?” — Mac Miller
Risk-taking is truly exciting once you dive into it. If you’re not ready for a major Leap, you can begin by simply making a habit of stepping outside your comfort zone — little by little this will recondition your system to understand that everything will be okay, and then eventually you’ll feel ready for a larger Leap.)
Life is inherently risky from the perspective of a human being. The next moment is literally never promised. Many people spend their lives hiding from this fact.
To notice the inherent groundlessness, freefall, impermanence, and nothing-to-hold-onto-ness of all phenomena is simply to be honest with oneself.
When you are honest on that level, you’re likely going to realize that it is foolish not to dance the dance you actually want to dance in this world.
You’re rapidly dying; you may die tomorrow.
So why wait?
You have nothing at all to lose, since nothing, in Truth, can be lost.
What You Truly Are is that which is Eternal. It is the One Thing that doesn’t change or fall away. It is the I AM Presence.
As for advice-giving: People will always take from your advice exactly what they need to take from it, nothing more, nothing less.
I recommend never blindly believing someone else’s words, including mine. Take what is useful and resonant; let go of what is not; add what is uniquely your own.
And above all: Find out for yourself. Investigate for yourself. The answers you seek are all hidden in plain sight. You already know them; you’ve only forgotten.
Dayna: How does one perhaps keep their ego in check whilst going on the course of conscious or shamanic entrepreneurship? Surely, in a business space, no matter how spiritual the community is, there will be spaces to take advantage, play the ‘know it all’, and certain temptations and tendencies that can take over ones ego if not careful. The dark aspects of the Ayahuasca community I think are a great example of this.
Jordan: One’s ego will always be precisely as inflated or deflated as it needs to be at any given time. Life does not make mistakes. Every single aspect of Creation serves its function perfectly in all situations.
That being said, the path of awakening is a path of learning to watch the ego very closely. The ego is a wondrously subtle and crafty bio-survival program. It is incredible how it can take anything and repurpose it for its own uses.
“Today’s transformation is tomorrow’s ego trip.”
So for the sincere spiritual aspirant, it is essential to watch the ego closely.
And beyond that, I recommend always remaining open to feedback and finding loved ones who are not afraid to shine a light on your blindspots.
Dayna: What would you say to someone who perhaps would accuse you of ‘cultural appropriation’ in your use of the term ‘Shamanic’ in combination with entrepreneurship?
Jordan: I might chuckle in surprise.
From the human perspective, we have far bigger “fish to fry” on Earth right now than resolving the question of whether two mouth noises can be uttered in succession.
Dayna: Is there a long-term vision for these types of teachings? Would you be willing to expand on that?
Jordan: No, nothing fixed. I feel the Vision as a living, ever-shifting, multi-dimensional organism that is symbiotically partnering with me to birth things into this realm.
I like to remain in an Infinite Possibility Space to allow the Vision to shift and reformat continuously, however it likes.
As I’ve said, I am very fascinated by what awakened entrepreneurs build—and I like helping them actualize their Visions. And it seems like this is needed on Earth at this time, else it wouldn’t be happening.
Dayna: You seem to be quite passionate about mentorship and learning from others within this space. Could you explain why and expand on that? How should someone go about choosing, finding and convincing someone to mentor them?
Jordan: Yes, investing in mentorship has been one of the best decisions of my life.
It is simply extremely powerful to immerse yourself in the energy field of someone who has walked the path you’re wanting to walk and has done the things you’re wanting to do. It collapses time, allowing you to quantum leap into your desired reality more rapidly.
It is also highly activating to make a significant financial investment in yourself. This acts as a powerful signal to your unconscious mind that a new chapter is beginning and it is time to go all in and make things happen.
There are many incredible mentors out there; one doesn’t have to look too far. Use your discernment and find someone you deeply resonate with on all levels.
“When the student is ready, the teacher appears.”
Dayna: Does/how does shadow work play a role in conscious entrepreneurship?\
Jordan: Shadow work is essential on the path of awakening. It is the exploration of all blind spots.As I mentioned, having people around who can illuminate your blind spots is highly useful.
Shadow work is also the gradual reintegration of all pieces of ourselves we had dis-owned.
It is the gradual realization that we are All That Is—that nothing is separate from us, including the ‘darkest’ and most ‘evil’ aspects of Life.
Once you realize this, you can finally “see no enemies” in the world, withdrawing all projections of ‘wrongness.’
This allows for the transcendence of the ‘Us VS Them’ paradigm that has led to countless wars and immeasurable bloodshed.
Dayna: What is your general opinion on money?
Jordan: As Dane Tomas cheekily put it, “Money is the root of all awesome.”
There’s a lot I could say about money; too much to say here.
Money is a clever technology humans devised to render exchange much more efficient.
Money is a way of symbolically tracking the reciprocal flow of Life Force Energy in the form of goods and services.
As I said earlier, on the deepest level all things are neutral. Money is a neutral energy that amplifies what is already there.
I trust myself with money so I honor it, love it, and welcome it into my field. I don’t make an identity out of it or hold onto it too tightly. I let it flow in easily in aligned ways
Money enables all sorts of wonderful, fun, and beautiful things to occur.
Is there some sickness and dysfunction in our current monetary system?
From the human perspective, yes, though again, our systems are simply faithful mirrors of our species’ level of consciousness.
We may be gradually transcending money in its current form, moving toward whatever comes next.
I don’t know what comes next.
For now, money is ubiquitously and inextricably embedded in social life on this planet.
Thus, it is far easier to work with this ubiquitous energy in a conscious and skillful way than to loathe it or boycott it.
Dayna: What is your general opinion on capitalism?
Jordan: It Is As It Is, like everything else.
It is Reality, and Reality does not make mistakes.
The current manifestation of capitalism on Earth is, again, simply a perfect mirror of humanity’s collective level of consciousness.
If our exact economic system were suddenly implemented in a civilization at a higher paradigm of consciousness, they would use it in a totally different way.
We’re probably gradually moving toward something beyond capitalism in its current form.
But again, for now, things are as they are, and this is the context we have to work with.
It is possible to transfigure capitalism, money, and business by harnessing these tools integrously—with sincere intention to create value and engage in fair exchange, from a place of seeing that: Anything you do to others, you do to yourself.
Dayna: I see you state ‘urgency’ as a tool for mindful entrepreneurship. How can urgency be used in a conscious and integral way to expand one’s business?
Jordan: Urgency, “time-sensitivity,” is an age-old marketing tactic. It’s simply a recognition of the way human psychology works. If something has a time limit, people are more likely to act decisively.
If you’re running a high-integrity business and you know your service is highly valuable… it makes sense to tap into time-tested marketing wisdom to create a thriving business.
Thus, whatever ways you can find to integrously create urgency—e.g. by letting people know you only have 3 spaces left for your retreat or that enrollment for your course closes at midnight—are likely to bring new clients into your business, new mutually beneficial relationships.
Dayna: Urgency, decisiveness and scarcity – three tools you name – seem to fall heavily into your metaphysics of conscious entrepreneurship? Do you agree/disagree that these terms are quite masculine in their approach? Is there room for a more feminine approach to conscious business?
Jordan: Yeah, I guess you could call these terms masculine. Money is a masculine energy. It likes action, it likes decisiveness, it likes movement. Entrepreneurship demands decisiveness and massive action; there’s really no way around it. You have to show up as a leader, put yourself out there, enact your vision, make offers, start having a lot of conversations, and build real relationships to get things moving. There’s definitely also a huge feminine element: The entire energetic side of things could be called feminine.
All the action and strategy in the world won’t get you far if you’re not energetically aligned, embodied, empowered, connected to Being in a profound way.
And all the alignment and embodiment in the world won’t get you far if you don’t take massive strategic action.
Ultimately I wouldn’t get too hung up on Masculine VS Feminine approaches to conscious entrepreneurship. As with all of life, both energies are present, and both are needed. And both are in all of us.
On an even deeper level, What You Are is actually beyond any (gender) categorization. And when you tune in on that level and see that you are actually the One Life that is simply living itself through you…
That’s when things get really fun.
Because then you surrender on a whole new level and taking massive action becomes increasingly effortless and joyful. The action is simply moving through you; you’re allowing it to flow through.
Dayna: Why do you think using scarcity and urgency to sell are not manipulative marketing tools when it comes to selling programmes or products to potential clients? Does this not ignite a sense of fear within your potential clients – are you not manipulating your client’s fear in order to get them to buy something?
Jordan: Urgency and scarcity can be created in an artificial way or an honest way. If I want 20 people in my mastermind, that means there are 20 spaces available.
Thus, there are a finite number of spaces that will be filled in a finite amount of time.
“Time-sensitivity” and “finitude” are less-charged terms one might use to re-frame “urgency” and “scarcity.”
Time-sensitivity and finitude can be highlighted or built into offerings in honest, integrous ways.
By building these in, you are encouraging people to act decisively.
People spend millions on superfluous consumer objects promoted by marketers and advertisers who are using every trick in the book.
In such a context, it is wise for conscious entrepreneurs to also understand persuasion and human psychology and to look for integrous ways to leverage this understanding to find the clients they are meant to serve.
If transformational entrepreneurs were better at selling, perhaps more people would invest in products and services that can actually help them fill the internal void they fruitlessly attempt to fill by buying consumer objects.
Dayna: Why is it important to be selective with your clients or who you choose to serve or work with?
Jordan: Simply put: Boundaries = Love.
Especially in 1:1 work or any work that is directly with people, we are quite limited in the number of people we can go deep with.
When we take on a bunch of misaligned clients who don’t truly feel like the best fit for us, we do them a disservice because the Resonance is not truly there.
And we also block ourselves from finding our more aligned clients who we will really feel excited to work with.
No transformational entrepreneur is here to serve everyone; that would be a physical impossibility.
Transformational entrepreneurs are here to serve soulmate clients on a similar path and frequency.
Once you deeply realize this and start to get very clear on who your archetypal soulmate client is, it gets a lot easier to start calling in those you are meant to serve.
Dayna: Self love and value seem to play a core role in shamanic entrepreneurship. Would you mind explaining why?
True self-love is realizing that Love is What You Are.
Love is All That Is.
To begin to Remember this is the Greatest Gift a person can receive.
This Remembrance redeems all of Life.
The greatest thing a shamanic entrepreneur can do for another human being is help them begin to Remember.
Dayna: What effect do you think the current pandemic is having on business as well as spiritual/conscious evolution in general?
Jordan: Humanity’s reaction to the pandemic—all the lockdowns and regulations and such—seems to have dealt quite a crushing blow to huge numbers of businesses worldwide, gutting entire economies in many cases.
The online economy, on the other hand, seems to have grown due to the lockdowns, highlighting the anti-fragility of online businesses.
I can’t really say what the effect of the pandemic has been on spiritual evolution.
I feel it has been a powerful Mirror revealing us to ourselves.
Reality is always just that: A Sacred Mirror, a Rorschach Test, in which you simply see your own beliefs and state of being mirrored back to you.
In every moment, Reality is presenting us with invitations to awaken. The pandemic is no different.
Whether or not humanity actually does awaken is another story.
Yet, in any case, All is Well, and It Is As It Is. You can trust Life completely.
Dayna: There seems to be this sort of justifying of charging high value for products based on self worth and belief in the value of your product within the spiritual business community in general. Could this possibly not be a way in which we are ignoring the shadow side of money – Where it does truly create inequality and inaccessibility?
“When the student is ready, the teacher appears.”
When someone is truly ready to heal or awaken, nothing in the Universe can stop that from happening.
In fact, everything will conspire to allow it to happen.
When someone is truly ready to heal or awaken, the necessary catalysts and mirrors will appear.
For myself, I can say that I have published hundreds of thousands of words and dozens of hours or audio and video publicly on the Internet. Anyone can access this massive body of work for free and receive much guidance across most all areas of life.
For many other conscious entrepreneurs it’s the same story: One of freely giving away massive value.
Most conscious entrepreneurs really struggle to actually start “pricing the priceless” and asking for what they are worth.
Yet when they learn to do this, that is what enables them to then devote 100% of their time and energy to their mission of assisting in planetary healing, or whatever it may be.
Many conscious entrepreneurs have higher-ticket offerings and also find ways to work with sincere people who cannot afford a larger investment. It makes sense to have different tiers of offerings that can meet people where they are.
Dayna: What has the current crises taught you, if anything? How are you dealing with it personally right now?
Jordan: It has shown me many things—too many to list here.
It has shown me humanity is still largely ruled by the fear of death.
I am dealing with it very well. Life is a Miracle and a Beautiful Gift, as always. Dayna: What would you say is the most important advice you could give anyone right now who wants to start a conscious business under the current crises?
There is great power in starting.
Get in the game.
Get in the habit of taking action.
Build real relationships.
Listen deeply to find out what your tribe needs from you.
Make offers at the intersection of your Soul-Joy-Gifts and what your tribe needs.
Find the joy of the rhythm of endless experimenting, refining, iterating.
Find someone at least 10 steps ahead of where you’re at and invest in mentorship with them. This will accelerate your path more than anything else and greatly increase your chances of creating a thriving soul-aligned business.
Take nothing too seriously.
I love you.